How Law Firm Leaders Can Foster Safety and Trust in Times of Change
Jennifer Simpson Carr: Welcome to Episode 162 of On Record PR, where we dive deep into the strategies that matter most to law firm leaders. I’m Jennifer Simpson Carr.
I am a co-host and Vice President of Strategic Development at Furia Rubel Communications, and today I’m joined by our special guest, mental health professional educator, speaker, and author of the book Resilience Renegade, Renee Branson. Welcome, Renee.
Renee Branson: Thanks so much for having me. It’s great to be here.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: Thank you for joining us again. For those of you listening who may not know, Renee was so gracious to join us last Tuesday morning. It was very early Pacific Time as she was volunteering to support the survivors of the LA wildfires.
So, Renee, I know the recording didn’t take, and you were so gracious when we had to break the news to you. But we’re so grateful that you came back.
Renee Branson: Oh well, I wouldn’t miss it. And believe me, there’s such a thing as a blessing in disguise. I don’t know that I was exactly fully awake or mentally present in the midst of everything last week. So I’m actually delighted to be back here more well-rested.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: Good. Well, thank you. So it’s Monday, January 27th. It’s felt like quite the start to 2025. There’s been a lot happening in the legal industry space. A lot of mergers and combinations that have come into effect. So the market’s changing and we’re exactly one week after the US presidential inauguration. So there’s a lot of things, three weeks into a new year that people are dealing with as humans.
Anyone who has spent time online on social media is probably already feeling inundated with updates and almost minute-by-minute changes. So I just want to start first by recognizing that there are people showing up for work, whether it’s at their laptop, at home or commuting to the office, or traveling who may be dealing today with fears and anxiety that didn’t exist, you know, a week and a day ago. So I just want to start by asking you, for those living in a more heightened state of anxiety or fear, whether it’s real or perceived, what kind of impact is that having on them day-to-day as they’re showing up in their lives and as professionals?
Renee Branson: Great question. Anytime we have periods of uncertainty, of heightened anxiety and concern, whether that’s coming from something happening in our personal lives, something that’s happening in our professional lives, or in the case that you’re talking about, something that’s happening at this, you know, cultural, governmental, national level when we are uncertain, and uncertainty triggers fear.
We automatically go into a heightened state of vigilance, feeling some levels of fight-or-flight or even freezing, right? I don’t know what to do, so I’m just going to put the covers over my head, or I’m having a really difficult time engaging, and any time that that happens, the very first thing that we need to do about it is just to acknowledge the reality of it. Right? This is how I’m feeling, not trying to shame ourselves about it or deny it or push it away. And the same goes if we are leading people who are experiencing those things. Acknowledge the reality and address the situation openly and honestly.
I know that recent events might be affecting you both personally and professionally. Let’s create some space for that. Whether that’s time to discuss it with colleagues, formally or informally, but finding some space for that. So just acknowledging the reality of it then helps to ground ourselves in the present. Like, “OK,” we’re not expending a lot of energy just trying to deny the truth of the situation.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: That’s really helpful advice because part of what I was thinking about while you were speaking is there may be people, and there are, who are showing up today and don’t feel different. So, I think just taking a moment, as you said, to acknowledge that there are potentially individuals or groups of people who may be feeling very different than they did even a week ago is a really foundational place to start.
Renee Branson: Absolutely. Believe people when they say how they are feeling because they are experiencing things and seeing things from their own lived experience that we have no idea right now what that means. When you and I talked last week, I shared this metaphor that I think is applicable. I was seeing in Pasadena, on streets where the fire did not reach and was half a mile away. And there were these big piles on the side of the road that were debris fields, like where people had cleaned up because of the wind storms, all the fallen branches and leaves of course, lined up along the tree along the streets, waiting for pick up.
In my brain, I thought this was a sign of recovery and people, you know, kind of cleaning things up. But I noticed that everyone around me whose lived experience was this fire, were terrified by these mounds of debris because they knew that those were absolutely prime to combust. So what I saw is a sign of maybe clean-up, they saw as a sign of imminent threat and danger because their lived experience told them. Much more accurate than my experience, which was not that lived experience, right? So when someone says, “That’s dangerous to me,” believe them.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: Yeah, that’s such a great analogy. What I’m hearing is that there are going to be people with different lived experiences who may be in groups different than we are, right? They don’t share the same past. They don’t share the same experiences. What unique stressors do you find that marginalized groups face? Where people who may be in a situation where they are in a position of privilege or, you know, have not lived in those experiences would maybe not understand or realize that would even be, you know, part of fear or anxiety.
Renee Branson: Yeah. So part of it is that many times they’re coming into work feeling very unsafe about the outside world that they’re experiencing. Sometimes very literally unsafe, not just psychologically unsafe, but also they’re coming into work and now they’re questioning, “What is my safety here?” Even if, by all past evidence, you have created an environment on your teams and in your firms that does promote psychological safety, that does promote a sense of equity and fairness, even then, people are still coming in saying, “Is it still true?”
Right, this is when the rubber meets the road. Was it all vaporware? Was it all talk, or was it true? We’re seeing all around us examples of corporations that proclaim, “Here are our values,” whether it’s around DEI or another initiative saying, “Actually, no, we’re going to roll those back.” So, in the back of people’s minds, it’s very logical, right? It’s not apparent. It’s logical that they would say, “Is that how we stand now?” or “Am I truly valued in the way that I was told I was valued?” And as leaders, if we can expect and accept that is going to be how some people come in, one of the top things that a leader can do is stay congruent with the values that you stated. You’ve got to stay congruent to that, to really lean into your integrity, and that in and of itself creates safety.
It’s OK if you don’t have all of the right answers. It’s OK if you’re not really sure what tomorrow is going to bring. But you can assure people that what I said is true. What we claim our values to be are our values, and we’re going to continue to live that out in our behaviors and our actions, and that’s when people can let their shoulders drop a little bit. Take a deeper breath to say, “At least here, in this space right now today, I’m OK in this moment.”
Jennifer Simpson Carr: Hmm. So you’re talking a lot about psychological safety. What are some other ways that leaders of law firms or any business can create a feeling of that psychological safety so that when someone does walk into the office or, you know, working from their homes, they feel that, as you said, their shoulders drop and they can take a deep breath and feel like themselves in that environment?
Renee Branson: Yeah. In addition to that, to acknowledge the reality, right? Not denying the reality that people see right in front of them and staying congruent with the values. A third thing is transparency. Being open in communication. Being honest, when the situation is, “I’m not sure how this is going to impact us in the future,” or “I’m not sure how to acknowledge that.” That takes some vulnerability. Especially as leaders when we want to, especially in a time of crisis, maintain a sense of control and strength.
We think, “Well, I can’t say I don’t know.” But in reality, when we say, “I’m not sure yet, but we’re going to find out together,” or “I’m not sure yet, but here’s how I’m going to make sure that we stay safe and protected. You are still and continue to be worthy and valued.” What that shows is that it builds trust and psychological safety because it tells someone that this person is being honest with me, and we’ll figure it out together. When we see the world or when people experience it, the world is kind of in crisis and burning all around them. And when someone says, “Everything’s fine. It’s gonna be OK. I’ve got it, don’t worry.” What’s the first thing we do? We worry, right?
Jennifer Simpson Carr: Mm hmm.
Renee Branson: ‘Cause, I’m like, the more we can say, “You know what, I don’t have all the answers. We’re going to figure it out together.” It’s like, OK, they acknowledge they’re assessing the situation appropriately.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: That’s really helpful. And I know personally I lose trust. We’ve had a couple of situations in our state, and I’m based in New Jersey, where we heard, “We don’t know what this is, but you’re OK.” And those two things to me couldn’t necessarily be true. So, I think being rooted in integrity and transparency is so important, Renee.
Law firms, in particular, are high-stakes, high-pressure environments. In most cases, I’m just wondering how you advise law firm leaders to support teams in these situations and also lead with empathy and understanding that this might be a time, unlike others, any type of crisis or fear that they’re going through.
Renee Branson: Anytime a leader is trying to lead people through crisis, they also have to acknowledge and care for the experiences they’re experiencing. Whether they are in a group that is at risk or is being singled out, there’s vicarious trauma all around us right now. And so acknowledging that in ourselves and not only taking care of ourselves, but taking care of ourselves out loud, right? Being really intentional and open about, “Hey, I need to step away from the desk for a bit. I’m feeling a bit brain foggy right now,” or “I’m feeling overwhelmed. I’m going to take a walk around the block,” or “I’m going to go grab a cup of tea.” Whatever that might be. These little things where we talk about it help to normalize the way that we can take care of ourselves.
And when our teams see leaders do that, it provides permission for them to also take care of themselves in small incremental periods of time throughout the day. So it doesn’t mean necessarily, “I’ve got to take a whole day off,” although there might be times when you’re gonna have people say, “I’m really struggling with today. I need to make some arrangements for today for a myriad of reasons.” Right? And to be open to that, even taking these incremental times throughout the day to take care of ourselves, helps to bolster our resolve and our resilience throughout the day.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: It sounds like the theme throughout this is to lead by example, right? To show up like you did yesterday as a leader, treat your people like you did yesterday as a leader. Demonstrate that you’re taking care of yourself. I think it’s such a great reminder that our leaders are human, too, and so they’re expected to be strong. They’re expected to show up, but they also need to take care of themselves. What resources can leaders provide during these times to help individuals through these times of fear and anxiety?
Renee Branson: Yeah. I would say the easiest first thing to do is to remind people of the resources that are already there and readily available to them. Whether that is an Employee Assistance Program at your firm or Life Assistance Program, any kind of program that you already have in place. Now you might say, “They know they’ve got that. It’s in their benefits package,” but when people have high anxiety and are under an immense amount of stress, we don’t always think of the resources there, right? We are in a fight-or-flight or freeze mode. So, reminding people that is readily available and visible, if you do have the ability to bring someone into your firm for a day or a few days, having drop-in sessions different than counseling sessions. But to say, if you need a 20-minute drop in, you know, debrief or check in with a mental health professional, or just someone to kind of talk through some things.
You can provide that, so finding those things that are already easily readily available is also something that firms already have at hand. But if not, it’s never too late to have a resource guide, right? What are your resources, specifically in your community? One of the things I’ve been thinking about, that I’ve been kind of pushing out to organizations that I work with and to firms, and maybe law firms need this less than other organizations, is knowing your rights around dealing with ICE or Border Patrol, right? That eases people’s anxiety around what happens if that is in my kid’s school or at my home because maybe I employ someone, whatever it might be. It’s providing someone a resource, with just a handout that says, “Here are my rights. OK, now I know what to do.” Arming people with information is always a way to ease anxieties, not eliminate it, but ease it. So those are, you know, finding those local resources, gathering those up to be able to provide to people is so helpful.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: That is such a great reminder. I know that in these times, when laws are changing, when executive orders are being signed, the law firms are so good at sending out communication to clients. It is also a responsibility to help support your employees, your professional staff, and your attorneys.
Renee Branson: Yeah.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: I know that something that you mentioned has been on my mind. Our school district, over the weekend, sent an e-mail kind of outlining certain facts, and it gave me a sense of relief just in our school district. So I can imagine that having that available as things change is incredibly helpful.
Renee Branson: Yeah, yeah. And then I would say, you know, this just reminded me of this being sensitive to when you are having a conversation with someone, let’s say, who may or may not have people in their lives who are undocumented, it might be kind of a natural thing for us to want to say, like, “How are you doing? Do you know anyone or do you have any of your family members who are undocumented? What can I do to support you?” On the surface, that sounds really lovely, right? You’re offering help.
That can be a really triggering and dangerous question. Never ask someone because you don’t want to know anything that you might be asked to reveal, and we don’t want to put anyone in a position where they need to reveal that information. And so generally, especially when dealing with that kind of generalities, we’re better not asking those really specific direct questions about status, and that also goes for folks who are in the LGBTQ community or trans community. Asking really specific questions is something that, even when you’re coming from a good and healthy place, might heighten a sense of danger because those can be tricky questions if that information is in hands that aren’t safe.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: Yeah, that’s great advice. I know that when people are feeling like they want to help, sometimes that help can turn into something that adds to anxiety. So that’s been good, of course, and it’s been a good reminder from our conversation that didn’t record.
Renee Branson: Yeah, unintentionally, but yeah.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: I’ve taken away several things, and that’s one of them. It is really being very thoughtful about questions that we’re asking people who could be living through a heightened sense of fear at this time.
So I want to thank you so much for coming back again this week and I want to thank our listeners for tuning in today. If you’ve enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving a review on iTunes. We welcome your podcast ideas for topics at podcast@onrecordpr.com. Renee, thank you again. You’ve been so generous with your time and your insights.
Renee Branson: Oh, thank you.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: And if anyone would like to get in touch with you after they listen to the episode, where can they find you?
Renee Branson: So I’m easy to find. My website is just reneebranson.com. And you can e-mail me at rb@reneebranson.com.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: Excellent. Thank you again and to our listeners. I will see you next week.
Watch the Full Episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/FuriaRubel